Multiple Incursions?

NOTE: Here at T2B we do believe in multiple incursions, and we believe it is happening today. That will be part of the coming strong delusion. However, we continue to bring you content from all view points. The following is from author Rob Skibba.

“The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.” – Genesis 6:4 (NASB)

“As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.”

If you have ever been interested in this subject, you’ve probably already read and heard a lot of people talking about the Post-Flood Nephilim giants based on the usual interpretation of the above verse – that being the idea that angels came down and mated with women again after the Flood. I call that the “Multiple Incursions” theory. While that may be the mainstream, dominant view, I am going to present another viewpoint here for your consideration.

Lucifer played that card already and lost – BIG TIME. Can you imagine him trying to convince another “platoon” of angels to try that again – especially after what happened to the ones who did it the first time? The two hundred who landed on Mt. Hermon in the days of Jared received an extremely severe punishment from God:

  • The Watchers were forced to watch their children be destroyed:

And to Gabriel said the Lord: ‘Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.’ – Enoch 10:9,10

  • Their punishment was pronounced:

‘Enoch, thou scribe of righteousness, go, declare to the Watchers of the heaven who have left the high heaven, the holy eternal place, and have defiled themselves with women, and have done as the children of earth do, and have taken unto themselves wives: “Ye have wrought great destruction on the earth: And ye shall have no peace nor forgiveness of sin: and inasmuch as they delight themselves in their children, The murder of their beloved ones shall they see, and over the destruction of their children shall they lament, and shall make supplication unto eternity, but mercy and peace shall ye not attain.
– Enoch 12:4-6

  • The Watchers begged for forgiveness and made Enoch to be their attorney to plead their case before God. But God would show them NO mercy:

Then I went and spoke to them all together, and they were all afraid, and fear and trembling seized them. And they besought me to draw up a petition for them that they might find forgiveness, and to read their petition in the presence of the Lord of heaven. For from thenceforward they could not speak (with Him) nor lift up their eyes to heaven for shame of their sins for which they had been condemned. – Enoch 13:3-5

***

I wrote out your petition, and in my vision it appeared thus, that your petition will not be granted unto you throughout all the days of eternity, and that judgment has been finally passed upon you: yea (your petition) will not be granted unto you. And from henceforth you shall not ascend into heaven unto all eternity, and in bonds of the earth the decree has gone forth to bind you for all the days of the world. And (that) previously you shall have seen the destruction of your beloved sons and ye shall have no pleasure in them, but they shall fall before you by the sword. And your petition on their behalf shall not be granted, nor yet on your own: even though you weep and pray and speak all the words contained in the writing which I have written.
– Enoch 14:4-7

  • Enoch then takes a tour into the depths of Hades – into Tartarus the eternal prison that awaits the Watchers. After seeing the horrors that are in those places he says:

Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: ‘Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?’ And I answered: ‘Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.’ And he said unto me: ‘This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.’ – Enoch 21:9-10

This is where the angels go who choose to mate with women. Lucifer is already out-numbered 2-to-1, so do you really believe he’d continue to risk losing more of his army to the prison of Tartarus? Besides, based on what the demons (the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim) said when they encountered Jesus while they were still in possession of the “Maniac of the Gadarenes,” it seems highly unlikely that Lucifer will find any volunteers anytime soon anyway! No. The Fallen are all keenly aware of the horrors of the abyss:

Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”

“Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss. – Luke 8:30,31 (NIV)

  • Even before the Watchers did what they did, Semjaza, their leader knew that what they planned to do was wrong and that the price for doing so would be severe:

And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: ‘I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.’  – Enoch 6:3

Given all of the above, I think it is absolutely, positively, ridiculously absurd to think that any other angel in Heaven or in the company of Lucifer would dare to even think about doing what they saw their brothers the Watchers do! That goes for Lucifer himself as well.

We know that YHVH is just, holy and changes not. Therefore, if the above represents the official punishment or sentence for committing the crime (or sin) that was done in Genesis 6:1-4, God would not be just if He were to allow another “incursion” and not impose the same judgment on those who participated.

Lucifer is not bound in chains. Lucifer is free to go to and fro on the earth – and apparently still has access to Heaven where he is known as the “accuser of the brethren” who accuses men day and night before God. He would not have access to Heaven if he had done what the Watchers did. He would be “bound in everlasting chains of darkness” like Semjâzâ and the rest of the Watchers. How could he have the power to work freely on this earth, and be the “prince of the power of the air” if he were bound in chains inside of it!?

No. I do not believe Lucifer, nor any other Fallen Angels have tried a repeat of The Genesis Six Experiment. And I would challenge anyone who disagrees with that statement to present Scriptural proof that angels once again mated with women, producing offspring.

Some have tried to point to the fact that the men of Sodom wanted to mate with the angels who visited Lot’s home as proof of Post-Flood angel sex.

But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. They shouted to Lot, “Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!” – Gen 19:4,5

Note however that {A} the text only shows that they attempted to, it does not say that they did and {B} even if those men could mate with the male angels, they would not have produced offspring. So, that argument is invalid and does not support the “Multiple Incursions” theory.

Now having said all of that, we can not forget what Jesus said:

“As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.” Matt 24:37 (NIV)

If we wanted to get hyper-dogmatic about that, my thesis still works. In fact, it actually works better in favor of my thesis than for those who hold to the usual “Multiple Incursions” theory. The Book of 1 Enoch records something rather terrifying:

And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated.  Enoch 10:12

I will deal with this issue more in the Nimrod and the Mt. Hermon-Roswell Connection blog (coming soon). In short, if we were to define a generation as 70 years (as in Psalm 90:10), then 70×70 gives us 4,900 years… and 4,900 years from the time of their judgement brings us right to the early part of the 20th Century! Thus, if there is a “second incursion” it very well could be happening in our day! And if so, it will truly be EXACTLY “as it was in the Days of Noah“! In other words, the Watchers who participated in The Genesis Six Experimentcould be back for “round two” and we could very well find ourselves dealing with some of the SAME beings who messed around with women the first time! {You might want to read that again!}

The bottom line is the judgment on the Watchers was extremely severe. Lucifer knows he is already outnumbered 2-to-1. Therefore, as a master tactician who has dedicated himself to opposing all that is good, I do not believe he would risk losing any more of his evil troops to the prison of the abyss. That would be a poor military strategy by any earthly standard. Any military commander who has decided to wage a war against a superior enemy while already being outnumbered 2-to-1 is going to be more interested in finding ways to increase his numbers not decrease them! And since Lucifer is smarter than humans who would not take the chance of losing valuable troops in such a situation, I do not believe he would take the risk either. A smart tactician would maximize the use of his available troops and look for other ways of gaining any advantage he could find with the resources available to him. Losing troops while already outnumbered is not an advantage.

Therefore, I suggest the Nephilim must have returned   another way…

If we are to believe that Scripture always confirms and interprets itself (as I do), then it must be noted that there is not one confirming Scripture in support of Genesis 6:4 that specifically states that angels ever again mated with women. Not one. And as far as I can tell, we don’t even find evidence of such activity in any other extra-Biblical Hebrew texts either – at least not in Jasher, Jubilees or 1 Enoch anyway; three books that have gone out of their way to give us tremendous detail about the activities of the Fallen Ones. Even Josephus fails to give support to the idea of “Multiple Incursions” in any of his works on the history of the Jews.

Whereas, there are numerous confirming Scriptures in support of the idea that all Post-Flood giants were decendents of previous giants – most of which came from the lineage of Ham. The weight of confirming Scriptures (and other extra-Biblical and historical Hebrew texts) is heavily in favor of the “First Cause – With Lasting Genetic Effects theory and totally against the “Repeat Offenses – Through Multiple Incursions theory.

A common line of thought amongst believers in the “Multiple Incursions” theory can be seen in the following excerpt from an e-mail newsletter I recently received titled, LESSON 5 “And Also Afterward: Giants in the Old Testament” by Dr. Judd Burton, historian, archaeologist and director of the Institute of Biblical Anthropology. In that newsletter, he states:

If the Nephilim died in the flood, how is it that they appear in later passages of the Old Testament. The passage of Genesis 6:4 suggests the answer. “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them.” Here “also afterward” implies after the flood, and the subsequent phrase suggests that not only were there Watcher angel incursions before the flood, but also after it, when additional rebellious angels mated with human females to produce additional generations of giants.

It must be noted that this conclusion is pure speculation by Dr. Burton – and he’s certainly not alone in that view. In fact, that’s pretty much the mainstream view of virtually every researcher I know in this field of interest. But that view is based solely on speculation, arguing from Biblical silence. Thus, he is quite correct in his use of words like “implies” and “suggests” because the text itself does not specifically say this was so. It is an assumption with no further Biblical support. My contention is that a number of equally valid implications exists and will become evident by the end of this blog.

Those who hold to this view subscribe to the notion that Gen. 6:4 is saying, “There were giants (Nephilim) on the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of God came [AGAIN and AGAIN] in to the daughters of men….”

An equally valid interpretaion would be: “When (or Because) the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and bore children to them, there were giants (Nephilim) in the land in those days and also afterward….”

I changed the order of the sentence simply to make this interpretation easier to understand, but it is not necessary to prove my point as we’ll soon see.

The Hebrew word “asher” is the key word in question. It is the word translated into English as “when.” However, it has a number of other meanings that are just as valid.

“Asher” is translated more often (at least in the NASB) as “because” rather than “when.” Thus, for me this becomes more of a “First Cause” issue, rather than a “Repeat Offense”issue. Going back to the original order of the sentence, notice how it would read if “asher” were translated as “because” instead of “when”: Here we see that

“There were giants [Nephilim] on the earth in those days and also afterward because the sons of God came in to the daughters of men….”

In my opinion, those are the two dominant views concerning how the Nephilim returned: First Cause (with lasting genetic effects) vs Repeat Offenses (through multiple incursions). As such, both groups of researchers must look at that Scripture differently –

Likewise, though I can still “see” Genesis 6:4 as a “First Cause” issue even when “asher” is translated as “when,” I think the meaning becomes that much clearer when translated as “because” as seen below (and yes, throughout this section, we will be adding more details from other Scriptures to it in order to make the answer that much more obvious as we move forward:

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, because the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.” – Genesis 6:4

It must also be noted that the same word “asher” is used again in that passage as “who,” which appears to be its most common rendering in the NASB (as seen in the above concordance rendering).

With this interpretation, it is very easy to see this as a “First Cause” issue verses a “Repeat Offense” issue. In other words, it doesn’t have to mean that there was a second or multiple incursions that created more Nephilim giants after The Genesis Six Experiment. It could be that all of the giants “who” followed “afterward” were a bi-product – or the result of – the initial “incursion.”

The bottom line is, with only that ONE word in ONE verse (that could be interpreted two different ways) to go on, both camps of researchers are making an assumption in order to explain the established fact that there were indeed giants on the earth both before and after the Flood. So, the question then becomes, which preconceived notion is correct, logical and verifiable (with Scripture) when considering all of the evidence available to us?

Everything else that Dr. Burton wrote in his (above mentioned) newsletter built upon his preconceived notion of an implied “second incursion.” This is almost universally the case amongst believers in that theory. Further, the reason given for these other “incursions” generally involves an assumed attempt to prevent the Messiah’s birth. Well, if that’s the case, then some more questions immediately come to mind: Like why did this supposed return of the Fallen Angels center ONLY on Ham’s children – when clearly Messiah was to come through Shem’s offspring? If the goal was to wipe out Messiah, why mess with tribes that had nothing to do with His ancestry? Dr. Burton explains:

The giants resituated themselves in the Levant to keep the Jews out, to pollute or destroy (as in the case of David) the bloodline of Messiah, and to oppress and lead astray the Jews. In terms of culture, it is evident that the giants established their Watcher and Nephilim forebears as the gods of ancient polytheism.

I do agree with the notion that this strategy worked in terms of setting up a polytheistic system, which would lead much of the world into the worship of false gods. In fact, that’s the foundational principle of this whole series and something we will examine much closer in Volume 3, Babylon Rising: Mythology and the Coming Great Deception (God vs god).

Dr. Burton goes on to say…

Their entire culture was built upon preventing the arrival of Messiah.

OK. But if the goal is to prevent the arrival of Messiah, why not totally obliterate the fledgling nation through polluted genetics WITHIN the lineage of Shem? Why focus on Ham? Why not scoop up all of Shem’s women, have sex with them and be done with the whole affair? Or why not infect all three of Noah’s son’s offspring? Have them totally devour the land as they did before the Flood, only this time prevent anyone else from building a boat or any other structure of safety. Destroy everything once again! They came close last time. Maybe they could try harder this time. Seems to me, that would have been a far more effective strategy… if it were even remotely possible. But they couldn’t do that because it appears – when taking all of the available facts into consideration – that they were either not able or willing to repeat what they did in Genesis 6.

The whole “Multiple Incursions” thesis is full of holes and is based on pure speculation. The text does not give us any indication that any angels mated with humans again after the Flood. Thus, there are zero confirming Scriptures to support the “Multiple Incursions” theory.

Therefore, I suggest the Nephilim must have returned another way…

If the account given in 1 Enoch (and other ancient texts as well) is to be believed, the immediate offspring – the first generation of Nephilim – were MASSIVELY huge! Upwards of 300 cubits or more.

And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones. -Enoch 7

The Bible seems to confirm the enormous size of some of these hybrids as well – even when referring to those who came after the Flood:

Yet I destroyed the Amorites (who were descendants of Canaan) before them, though they were tall as the cedars and strong as the oaks.- Amos 2:9 (NIV)

Most scholars refer to Post-Flood Nephilim in terms of 9 to 18 foot giants. But GOD, through the prophet Amos refers to giants who were as tall as cedar trees! Ever see a cedar tree? Very large. In fact, the “cedars of Lebanon” were often referenced in the Bible as being renowned for their enormous height. They can grow to over 100 feet tall! But even a modest cedar grows to between 30 and 50 feet in height. And giants of this size have apparently been found in the past. Giants who were between 30 and 100 feet tall would certainly explain the comments made by the Hebrew spies when they first scouted out the land of… Canaan:

They gave Moses this account: “We went into the land to which you sent us, and it does flow with milk and honey! Here is its fruit. But the people who live there are powerful, and the cities are fortified and very large. We even saw descendants of Anak there. The Amalekites live in the Negev; the Hittites, Jebusites and Amorites live in the hill country; and the Canaanites live near the sea and along the Jordan.

Then Caleb silenced the people before Moses and said, “We should go up and take possession of the land, for we can certainly do it.”

But the men who had gone up with him said, “We can’t attack those people; they are stronger than we are.” And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, “The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”

– Number 13:27-33 (NIV)

I would suggest that nothing smaller than 24 to 36 foot tall giants would make someone describe themselves as feeling like a “grasshopper” by comparison!

For the sake of illustration I have created the following graphic to show you what the various sizes of men would look like if standing side by side:

And for additional support of what Moses wrote in Numbers 13, consider the fact that when the Hebrew spies went into the land of Canaan, they brought back a single cluster of grapes that was so large it took two men to carry it on a pole! If we are to take the Scriptures literally, and just imagine a single cluster of grapes like we might buy at the supermarket, the following graphic illustrates an approximate scale of the size of the grapes and the corresponding size of a giant that might have been eating them:

A six foot man would have no problem carrying a single cluster of grapes that was scaled to anything smaller than what a 30 foot tall giant might have been eating. Thus, even by the size of the grapes we may think that the giants of Canaan were at least 30 to 36 feet tall! And no doubt about it, a 36 footer is pretty massive! But even if the Amorites could have possibly gotten to be as tall as 100 to 150 feet max (the size of the cedars of Lebanon), that is still only about one quarter the size of the first generation Pre-Flood giants. Remember, 1 Enoch says the first generation hybrids got to be “3,000 ells” or 300 cubits, which equals approximately 450 feet tall – a number that Scripture records as being the same as the length of Noah’s Ark. I wonder if that’s just a coincidence?

Why the dramatic decrease in size? If angel + human = 450 footers, why do we not see evidence of such massive creatures in the Post-Flood world? If the “Multiple Incursions” theory were true, there should be multitudes of 450 footers!

Therefore, I suggest the Nephilim must have returned another way…

By my reckoning, the Pre-Flood Nephilim were on the earth for nearly 1,200 years prior to the Flood. Look at what they were able to do in that amount of time! Surely, if there had been “Multiple Incursions,” we would not be here today – after nearly five thousand years!

According to 1 Enoch, the first generation of the Pre-Flood Nephilim only lived for 500 years. But judging from the writings of both the Hebrews as well as other ancient cultures, it would appear that there were second, third, and other generations that were on the earth in one form or another for total of roughly 1,200 years from the days of Jared leading up to the Flood.

In that time, Genesis tells us that they were able to thoroughly corrupt all flesh.

And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. – Genesis 6:12 (KJV)

Genesis, 1 Enoch, Jubilees and Jasher all agree, that the WHOLE EARTH and EVERYTHING on it had been thoroughly corrupted by the effects of The Genesis Six Experiment. It got so bad that the only thing God could do was wipe everything out and start over!

If we were to look at that from a strategic perspective, we’d have to say that was a pretty effective military campaign launched by the Fallen ones! If Lucifer’s goal was to wipe out the seed, he did a pretty amazing job with just 200 angels in 1,200 years! But if Lucifer’s angel+human=TOTAL CORRUPTION strategy was so successful (starting with just 200 angels), and if he had the ability to continue to use that strategy after the Flood (with COUNTLESS other angels within the 1/3 of Heaven’s hosts available to him), don’t you think he would have? Proponents of the “Multiple Incursions” theory say he did. So I ask, why didn’t the whole earth become completely corrupted again and again and again and again and again? They’ve had nearly five times the amount of time since the Flood as they did before the Flood to continue their previously effective plans. So, what happened? Why are they not still doing it? Why have they had to resort to the medical experiments and “Alien Greys” and such? Why is there no further mention of giants after the time of David in Scripture? If they had the ability – or willingness – to continue to mate with woman AS they did in Genesis 6, how do we answer those questions? How do we account for the LACK of evidential and Scriptural support for that position? We can’t.

Therefore, I suggest the Nephilim must have returned another way…

 

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